Thursday, July 16, 2009 9:58 AM
We're always looking for ways to make it easier to find what you're looking for in Google Docs, which is why we're taking some time to do a bit of remodeling to the Docs list. Over the next few weeks you'll see a number of small changes, culminating in a brand new shiny interface.One thing you'll probably notice in the next few days is that the "Shared with..." list in the left hand pane will go away. But don't worry, you can still use Search to do the same thing. Just click on "Search Options" and type the user's name into the "Shared with:" box. If this is a search you'll do over and over again, you can click "Save this search" so it will be easily accessible in "Saved Searches".
Another thing you'll see is the new Sharing Menu. We feel this is a big improvement over the old one; we've moved all the sharing functionality into this one dialog, so now you can completely manage sharing without having to leave the Docs list.
We also added a few search operators, so you can now search with:
- Exact phase matching, by using quotes: ["match this phrase exactly"]
- Or: ["tacos" OR "nachos"]
- Negation: [salsa -dancing]. This will include items with salsa recipes, but not items about dancing
- Who the doc is shared from or to: [from:bob@gmail.com] or [to:bob@gmail.com]
- Star or Hidden state: [is:starred] or [is:hidden]
In the meantime, please pardon our dust. :-)
Posted by: Vijay Bangaru, Product Manager, Google Docs
173 comments:
Could there please be an overhaul to the actual document part of it? Like trying to use it as a replacement for any software it just fails in comparison.
How about sharing folders?
I'm not sure I like the "shared with" list going away. In the business where I work, it can be examined quickly to see improper sharing (with names we don't recognize). Please think about this.
Unless I can't find it, is there any chance of making forms over multiple pages rather than having a form that goes on and on becuase all the questions are listed under each other.
Would be really nice to create a form/survey that allowed you to group like questions that appear on their own page as part of the 1 form
They will be followed shortly by the new interface and a number of pretty exciting features we have in the pipe.
A new interface would be really nice. I like the current interface but it is not well-suited for a large number of documents. Can you please provide more details about the new interface?
Oh, yea, Folder Sharing is a must! :)
folder sharing! please!
Shared folders would be awesome.
I concur with out posters about a "Shared folder" with all documents residing in those folders shared with a group of people I specify.
One step further is to create contact shared folders - where the shared items would be based on the contacts in each group.
As a teacher using Google Apps it would make life fantastic for sharing assignments across groups of students (each class I teach has a separate mailing group). If I could simply drop files into a folder based on those contact groups it would make sharing documents significantly faster.
Keep up the great work.
The new search operators sound pretty cool, but how can I apply them to only a name search instead of a contents search. I see no name: option.
'The Items not in folders' view has been removed.
What method will there be now to remove files from all folders like was possible by dragging them to 'Items not in folders'?
The 'Shared with' folders will no longer be in your left hand pane.
The shared with options was a bit buggy by could have acted as an easy accessible list of all people some file was shared with. The replacement option 'Search for the files shared with a certain person' is only possible if you now who exactly to search for. By taking away the 'Shared with' item there is no longer a list of persons; what can be done to make that list again available to us. Note Shared with could act (and would act for some users) as a check on who had access to (some) document in one's account. Taking away 'Shared with' also takes away that check!
We Want support for MathML / MathType...
Please implement in doc chat in the same way you do with spreadsheets.
If google doc has one competitive advantage over Office, it is collaboration.
And without chat , collaboration is pointless.
Thanks
I don't really have much confidence in your promise of a 'shiny new interface.' This is partly because the new interface in Adwords is not good - it is so slow that I much prefer the old one. Yet the main selling point for the new interface is the promise of being able to 'work faster!' Please don't make changes for changes sake - if you do then your products will only get worse, not better.
Sounds interesting! Keep up the excellent iterations!
Any way to search for all documents NOT shared with someone? doing a NOT[you@here.com] or NOT "you@here.com" seems to return no results.
I am not sure if this is your problem or chrome's problem, I am seeing strange behavior when I edit documents on chrome. They are simple ones like copy and paste, font changes.
It works fine on IE though.
Can we have the option to not print the grid in spreadsheets? Grid is useful on screen, but my print outs would look better without it.
I'd still prefer if the apps had features added and improved, such as documents (mainly) and presentations. So far, I can't replace my Pages app or Word to make full and professional documents for my company. Since Office 2010 poses a threat, it's time to invest on Docs more.
As a teacher I concur that a Shared Folder facility would be great.
Having the "items not in folders" option disappear is wildly unhelpful. It was how I tracked new items I was shared with- something valuable for someone who gets upwards of 25 new documents in a week.
I was staggered to see the "Items not in Folders" list go. Like Dylan, I use folders and stars to organise my docs. It was the only way I could track new docs being shared to me by my students.
Now I have to load the "All Items" page which is not as efficient.
Please bring it back!!!
One word: Gdrive
noticed the changes today in google docs, however everyone on my domain that i shared docs with now cannot see any docs. only me, (the doc owner) can see them, although it does show the people that should have access to the files. has anyone else had this happen?
Sharing folder would be really handy. Have thought about it?
Please add sharing folders. We are considering moving our business to Google Docs but without that feature, that's going to be hard to justify. I am somewhat alarmed that after a web search I determined that people have been asking for this since 2007. It seems like such a no-brainer!
We too are considering moving our business to Google docs, but the inability to share folders with my co-workers is sort of a deal killer. When will this be implemented?
Please bring back "Items Not In Folders"! I can't find my old drafts!
And what happened to the documents not in folders at the time of the change over yesterday? I dislike the fact that that alternative is gone AND I had to manually sort through over a thousand documents to fine the four that weren't in folders.
Please return the "items not in folders" feature.
Also can we have the same side texting column in the documents as in the spreadsheet so folks can instantly communicate changes they are making
Also is there a way to make shared spreadsheets show the most recent changes made and not one removed in the changes history?
Using a search to find the "shared with" only works if you remember the name of the person you shared the document with. Please return the list of "shared with", as well as the list of documents not in folders, and the "preview" function that used to be available as one of the "more actions" items.
Perhaps the "exciting changes" will be GDrive.
Nice idea, but viewing the published version of a doc shows it in web mode rather than the mode set by the editor (most of mine are set to Page View). Before, right-clicking the document name in the list gave an option to View Published which retained the mode set by the editor. Although this seems a trivial problem, it means that I have to edit a doc link every time I embed it into an email - easy to forget if in a rush and not good when dealing with clients.
I'm really bummed to see "items not in folders" go away. That's a big part of how I use google docs -- I organize my random notes and ideas at the end of every week based on what hasn't been file yet. PLEASE bring it back?
Please put ITEMS NOT IN FOLDERS back in the left hand side. This was extremely important for organization and sharing.
I feel lost with out it.
"Items not in folders" MUST return. This is one of the easiest ways to find documents when you have 100s of documents.
It is impractical to load "all items" everytime i need to find something.
Taking that away was a huge mistake.
Please add form ability to email out the actual entry to an email address and not just default to the account's address. And even be able to modify the arrangement of the message and Subject line.
Also the ability to set event dates on the calendar when I create a form for a response. And/or the ability to email to the address in a column.
Items Not in Folders was so useful for organising. I don't always have time to put new docs in folders as I create them, and used Items Not in Folders to sort my docs at the end of the week. Trawling through the list of hundreds of docs will make it near impossible!
Bring it back, or at least give us the option to search for them easily!
The loss of "Items Not In Folders" removes one of the most useful features. If it doesn't come back soon, I'll be forced to look for an alternative to google docs. In the mean time, I won't be uploading any new docs.
Changing the "Shared with..." list from a sidebar item to a search was a good idea for a cleaner interface. The "Owned by me" and Opened by me" items should also become searches, and "All items," "Starred," "Hidden," and "Trash" should be moved under a non selectable "Library" heading for the new interface.
Changing "Shared With" to a search has just made Google Docs a lot less useful to me. I'm not sure what the rationale for this change is.
@Darkrose You can use the Search Options to show just "Shared with" without any options. Then save that search under Saved Searches.
Why remove "items not in folders?" Was it hurting someone's delicate sense of cloud computing to allow this bit of organizational ability? The fact that we can't yet share folders means that I now lack the ability to see what is outside of folders in order to determine what hasn't yet been shared with my editors. (Ability to rank by folders/sharing in the doc list would at least mitigate this problem that has been created.)
Sheesh. Why does the doc list now show my name in date list after every doc/spreadsheet? It used to tell me who was the last in to edit.
OK, I really don't understand what the improvement is in taking away "items not in folder" and "shared with".
These were two really useful features and loosing them is not "making it easier to find what i'm looking for in Google Docs". And it's seems I'm not the only one.
Will you consider getting them back?
It would have been better if you had left the options until at the same time you replaced with new features that did the same function.
"Items Not in Folders" This is a deal breaker for how much I will continue using Google Docs. It was ultra helpful. Very hard to find unfoldered documents unless they are brand new.
"Items not in folders" missing is a major problem. Folders are now useless.
This is the downside of web apps: "upgrades" that you do not want.
Yes, you royally screwed up the folder interface:
1) No more "items not in folders"!?! Why? Bring it back.
2) The nesting of the folders no longer shows up correctly in the interface.
Even when I move a folder into another, it's icon still shows up in the top level beside the other top level folders on the left-hand side.
Cancel number 2.
It works now, but only if I drag and drop. It doesn't work when I use the drop down menu to move them.
Bring back "Items not in folders"!!
I know you think your search algorithms are so good and so advanced they're better than sex but I don't want to define a search or access a saved one every time I want to find an unfiled document. Life's too short. Sometimes, not putting them in a folder is a better form of organization that any other. So, for the satisfaction of all your customers, bring back the 'items not in folders' option. Or at least set the folder/file structure up to act like a normal one where the parent directory lists both the folders and the files that it, as a FOLDER itself, contains.
slkpcme said...
I know you think your search algorithms are so good and so advanced they're better than sex but I don't want to define a search or access a saved one every time I want to find an unfiled document.
lolz, excellent!
Just put it back, OK? Don't Be Evil.
I now all of a sudden find I can't see which of my staff accessed a document last.
It was great being able to see who all collaborators/viewers were at a glance! Not to mention the easy tracking of document access & usage.
The list of documents shared as well as "items not in folders" being removed is extremely unhelpful & frustrating.
It was a big move for our company a couple of weeks ago to go from microsoft software to Google Docs. However recent changes makes me wonder whether this was a massive mistake.
Please, please bring back Items not in folders view. I'm paralyzed without that. How the hell can I find out when people have shared new documents with me?!?!
Listen -- items not in folders is a big deal (for a ton of people, for a ton of reasons). Why not compromise and at least make it a search option that we can save?
This is seriously a deal breaker for me. I hope you guys are at least considering our concerns?
How many people Google needs requesting the "Items not in folders" feature to give a corp answer about it????
Obviously is a big mistake and most the people needs it back!!
Who was the dumbass at google that approved the removal of the "items not in folders" search option? He/she should find another profession.
I really miss the "Not in any Folders" link. Can it be recreated as a saved search or something? That's how I know what things I have not yet filed away and need attention.
Er.. has anyone ever mentioned that it would be handy to be able to share a folder?
Possibly a thousand times!
If you (google dev) don't think this is a big deal you should run through a simulation of say a small organisation with a handbook on your system consisting of thirty separate documents. An ever changing group of users need to have access to the handbook (and need to have their access removed as they move on). Occasionally the administrator forgets to check the view only button. The workload of running a 'simple' system like this would EASILY pay for a 'proper' on line document management system. ($50 worth of time per month > cap ex of $3000)
Please being back "not in folder" option!
Sounds good. What I would really want to have on google docs, is a better support for making flow charts and such. Now it is quite clumsy
Please bring back the "shared with" list, so much easier to find documents... I don't even use folders anymore.
Setting up searches for every user is a pain!!!
Folder sharing pleeease. I notice that the Folder in Docs has a greyed text that reads "not shared" - is folder sharing finally coming to Docs and if so when? Thanks
I have just tried searching for a known string, and it isn't found in *any* files apart from those created in the last few months.
Trying to search for something in documents pre-March 09 (I have files going back to early 06) brings no results, even though I 110% know for a fact the text is there?
What's up with that ?
I have read many comments here, and I just want to put in my voice on an aspect as well: "Removing the 'Show all docs currently not in folders' view was WILDLY UNHELPFUL!" I see that MANY people feel this way, and I am one. Overall, I LOVE Google docs, and am always praising it to my husband and colleagues. THANK YOU. It is GREAT being able to access my current docs on ANY PC with Internet access. Please keep up the good work. But maybe consider bringing back that "show all docs not in any folders" feature?
I would really appreciate if we could have search keywords such as is:published.
I really need "Items Not in Folders" back! I have stuff I left unfiled ages ago thinking I could come back and file it on a down day, but now I have to use search and probably don't remember half of the docs, or I have to go through pages and pages and hundreds of documents to find them. Really please add this function back.
*bump* ..
+1 on the hitcount for the Items not in folders view to be returned.
It's very useful from a workflow perspective and I think it's sorely missed by a number of your users.
You really need to bring the "items not in folders" back. I might quit using google docs if i can't organize myself properly! I bet many users may end up doing the same...
Thanks to everyone for letting us know how much you miss "Items not in folders." We definitely are aware that you miss this feature and are actively looking into what we can do. For an imperfect substitute in the meantime, you can try finding items not in folders by going to one of the views ("Shared with me", "All items", etc) and looking for items without a labeled folder indicator. You can make the visual scanning easier by assigning colors to your folders. Thank you for your patience and feedback as we transition to a new doclist.
- Vijay Bangaru, Product Manager
Thank God for that. I treated the "Items not in folders" as my document dumping ground to be organised later, when I have some time free. It's now really tiresome trying to fish out these documents that need to either be filed or deleted. I'm sure most people use it in the same way.
The sooner it comes back the better.
Next announcement:
In preparation for the new Gmail interface, Google has removed the Inbox view.
In the interim, just use "All Items" view.
HELLO McFly?!?!?
Put the items not in folders (Inbox) back in Docs please, and in the future, make sure there's at least a workaround for deprecated features.
@Daniel: The problem doing "Shared with" as a search is that I have to do it for every person I've shared a document with, and there doesn't seem to be a way to search for something shared with multiple people. Since I share most of my documents, and it's important for me to know *exactly* who I've shared what with, removing my ability to see that easily is effectively removing the whole reason I started using Google Docs in the first place.
"Items not in folders" being removed is a complete disaster.
I don't understand why you removed "Items not in folders" (or similar). This was a quick, easy way to see if something hadn't been "put away". As far as I see, now the only way is to scroll through the list of docs to see if something isn't assigned to a folder. Is there another way? Or can you please give this option back?
P.s., I, too, would like to be able to share folders.
Please bring back the feature where you can see "The items not in a folder". This is a necessary tool!
You don't even have a way to search for items not in a folder. This really is a dumb change. Please change it back.
I also definitely need this feature back.
I´m thinking about switching to evernote.com.
folders. folders! why is this so hard to implement? the ability to share folders seems so basic a feature that i can't understand the silence (resistance?) about implementing it.
when i worked in television, we were guided by population studies showing that for every phone call or email a TV station received from an audience member, there were generally 500-1000 people who felt exactly the same way but hadn't made the effort to communicate it. how many google docs users have asked for folder sharing?
I want to add to the screaming hordes that want "Items not in folders" back! It was critical to how I use Google Documents. This is a huge disappointment.
Going on a month, critical features still removed. *sigh*
I used to be such an evangelist for moving to web-based software. I've convinced more than a few companies to adopt GoogleApps.
I used to laugh at those who were reticent, and consider them Luddites.
Now I see that I was wrong. When you don't have control of the software, and the company that does forces changes on you immediately that it thinks are OK, your entire business can suffer mortally.
Thanks for the wake-up call Google.
I'll be more careful in the future.
+1 for the "items not in folders" view. Until that comes back, Google Docs is nearly useless to me.
"Items not in folders" feature was so important! Google Docs is now about 1/3 less useful to me.
WOW, i really need "items not in folder" back.....
Mike, I completely agree. I remember when I first started using Google Docs, I put "Google Docs is going to take over the world" as my Facebook status. I was recommending it to lots of people. Now I don't really tell anyone about it and I've virtually stopped adding new documents since I know they will be such a pain to organise.
Normally I would just go back to the Beta version but I can't do that since I'm not in control of my own software.
I am actively seeking alternatives at the moment and I have been considering going back to DropBox even though it has to be installed on all the computers you use.
To be honest I've never liked Google’s "search over organising" philosophy. I have a feeling that this feature was too much like a root folder so Google removed it to fit in with their 'tagging' instead of using real folders. I like folder organisation, why fix something that isn't broken?
Make one of the 'exciting features' that we are all waiting on be putting BACK Items Not in Folder list AND shared by whom. Number of shared is of NO use. Need to know WHO.
Bring back "not in folders" feature so that I can get some work done efficiently. Someone at Google really needs to look at this again.
items not in folder filter needs to come back.
Also the last few folders in my folder list keep on vanishing until i add another folder.
Please incorporate the ability to choose/save a different default sort order. We have been happily using Google Docs for sharing administrative, instructional guides & info... I don't really care when a document was accessed last, I need to be able to find the (carefully chosen) title - having to click the "name" column header to sort each time is getting a little annoying...
It's very embarrassing recommending Google Docs to people and then having vital features removed like 'Show all docs currently not in folders'.
Please bring it back ASAP, it really is vital for many people.
According to Google:
A 3-year deprecation policy means that we'll support each version of the API for at least 3 years from when it's deprecated or a newer version is introduced. For example, let's say an API is on v1 and then it launches v2 on March 1st, 2009. That means, that v1 will continue to be supported until March 1st, 2012. Similarly, if one day we announced that the API were being deprecated entirely, its most recent version would continue to be supported for 3 years from that date.
So this only includes APIs? Is there no deprecation policy for the standard GUI in the end user applications and features such as "items not in folders"?
The final, categoric irony here is that google has been a company that prides itself on "search" (in fact...uhm....you might argue that everything google has ever done has been on the heels of "quality search"?). And yet google will not allow its most dedicated users even to search for a category ("files not in folders") that google itself created.
It's a colossal dissapointment; certainly one that renders what once was a pretty great tool useless for me.
Google docs without "files not in folders" is like email without an inbox. BRING IT BACK.
-Choking on your dust
1. Folder Sharing
2. Items not in Folder
Thanks
Approximately when should we expect the return of 'Items Not In Folders'?
Folder sharing please!
I don't think anyone else mentioned it, so I will do it: folder sharing:).
Folder sharing is coming this month.
Great. Too thrilled for words. But when are you bringing back items not in folders? Everything else is less than moot without it.
Sharon
Items not in folders, Folder sharing names not qty, Items not in folders, Folder sharing names not qty, Items not in folders, Folder sharing names not qty, Items not in folders, Folder sharing names not qty, Items not in folders, Folder sharing names not qty, Items not in folders, Folder sharing names not qty, Items not in folders, Folder sharing names not qty, Items not in folders, Folder sharing names not qty. Please?
I'd be a lot happier with Google if I really had the sense that what drives your product development is what your customer wants and not what you think think he ought want or, even worse, what he should learn to live without...
"If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses." --Henry Ford
Goggle didn't build a car Bob, they cut the feet off of the existing horse....
Blame it on the secrecy. In trying to keep future enhancements a secret, they make subtle behind-the-scenes changes in preparations for a larger future update to the front-end.
As this is happening, certain functionality is missing from the front-end until the two (back-end and front-end) play catch-up.
Secrecy? Or they just like to anger every one so when they do backpedal and fix it they can look like heroes?
Whatever, whichever. Great product, when it isn't being plagued by 'secrecy'....
The most obvious answer is often the most likely answer. So, yes, Google wants to anger everyone. It makes perfect sense.
Lovely, just lovely.
Bob Said: Blame it on the secrecy. In trying to keep future enhancements a secret, they make subtle behind-the-scenes changes in preparations for a larger future update to the front-end.
As this is happening, certain functionality is missing from the front-end until the two (back-end and front-end) play catch-up.
This is a BS defense of why things don't work. It's what beta testing realms are for--and I know Google is fully capable of doing so instead of taking a product people have come to rely on and crippling it while "front end catches up to back end". And despite your insulting comment with the quote about Henry Ford, your customers *do* actually know what it is they need when it comes to functinality in their programs. Just because most programmers assume users are stupid doesn't mean all of us are. It seems you're taking customer service relation classes from the Lindens. great job.
@Winter,
I'm sorry that you thought the comment about "secrecy" as being a "defense". I had no intentions of "defending" the way things are by the statement I made. I simply pointed out that this is why it happens, good bad or indifferent.
The quote from Henry Ford wasn't to suggest that users are dumb, it's that if the users could foresee the future of what they want, they'd just become programmers and build everything for themselves. They'd have nobody to complain to but themselves.
The end result is, those who see a future learn how to build it and set out to do so. Those who just want incremental changes sit around and wait for them to happen. In the meantime, they complain about larger changes that they didn't ask for or incremental changes that seem to be a step backwards.
Take, for instance, the label and folder conundrum. Some people love folders and hate labels. Other people hate folders and love labels. In an attempt to appease both groups, Google has created a label/folder hybrid with Google Docs. This has either made both groups happy... or made both groups unhappy. Sometimes, there's just no pleasing the whole world, so you just have to forge ahead to the future that you think will be most beneficial, whether the entire world agrees with you or not.
Some features in the future of Google Docs will blow many people away. Eventually, these features will be taken for granted. In the meantime, the growing pains are going to annoy most. It's an unfortunate side-effect of the structure of Google internally. This isn't Microsoft where a single group tells the engineers exactly what their vision is and exactly what they should be doing. Instead, it's a bunch of developers each with their own ideas, each testing out these ideas, often stumbling over each other's toes in the process.
It's why everything Google makes feels like a sandbox... because, in a way, it is.
Folders and labels are the same thing. After all, both are merely virtual data links. The question is whether or not they are hierarchical and exclusive, and what the icon looks like. For maximum usefulness, I think they should be hierarchical (unlike typical labels), AND non-exclusive (unlike typical folders)
But regardless of those details, clearly there is a property to define this. Not being able to seach for it's absence (not in any folder) is ludicrous. What technical reason can there be to remove this ability? Until that is explained, I have to assume it's an incompetent mistake compounded by no concern for all of us who need it. This is not an acedemic question. Some of us have real customers complaining about it, which costs us real money.
This is the MOST commented thread here on this OFFICIAL BLOG. Do we get an explanation? A roadmap? No. We get silence. At least with Microsoft Products, I can use the old product, fully test the new product before deployment, and roll back if there's a problem. With GoogleDocs we take what were given. And I'm a Google fanboy.
@Mike,
Right. In my opinion, the implementation of labels as folders in Google Docs is much more flexible and useful than, say, the implementation of labels in Gmail.
For instance, in Gmail, I can create a "receipts" label, and everything goes into that. However, if I have Business Receipts and Personal Receipts... do I create two labels? business-receipts and personal-receipts? Maybe I create three labels? receipts, business, and personal, then assign two labels to all receipts? This seems weird, to have three receipts for two different scenarios.
With Google Docs, you can create two "folders"... Business and Personal. Under each folder, you can have a "subfolder" called "Receipts". Problem solved. Yes, these are still labels... a single doc can live inside both locations without actually existing twice. But, with the hierarchy and the ability to have two different labels both called "receipts", we can accomplish more.
There's a catch. In Gmail, I can search for "in:receipts" and see all receipts at once. In Google Docs, will this be possible? If so, how can a search be performed to search only under one receipts folder and not both simultaneously? "in:personal/receipts" maybe? What if we also have a folder at the root called receipts? Would you need to specify a slash first? "in:/receipts" (everything in the root folder called receipts) as opposed to "in:receipts" which might return everything found in any folder called receipts?
As you can see, great solutions also add additional complexity to perform the same tasks under another design theory.
Let's entertain this idea. Google plans on adding many more data types. Videos, images, photo albums, bookmarks, etc... So, the list at the left is going to grow. Furthermore, by using the bookmark sync feature in Google Chrome, a new specialized folder just for Google Chrome appears at the root. As more and more syncing features in additional applications (including web applications) is made available, the list of system-created root folders being created will expand and grow.
So, at some point, someone probably asked the question "Do we have way too many options on the left-hand-side? It's getting a bit crowded over there." Ultimately, they probably did a study to see just how many Google Docs users were using the "Not in folders" option. Perhaps this was the least used option on the left. So, they removed in... to make more room... so that more options can be added to the left that would not go unnoticed.
Then, users complained. Google has heard these complaints. Google has responded. I suspect the feature to return, soon. However, it would be premature to simply throw the item back in the left where it was before, because now you're back to square one... still with a need to make more room over there.
It is more likely that this ability will return, but in a slightly different form. But keep in mind that Google works very meticulously, which often means very slowly. It took more than a week just to change "PDFs" to "Files", and even this linked to a URL with "PDFs" in the URL. It took more than a week to eventually eliminate the "PDFs" terminology so that only "Files" is used. If it takes nearly a month just to make a full transition from "PDFs" to "Files", imagine how long the discussion will take place regarding what form the "not in folders" feature should return, and how that will mesh properly with the new interface changes scheduled for a week from Thursday.
Bob said...
it would be premature to simply throw the item back in the left where it was before.
Fine. I don't care if it's in the UI, but there isn't even a key to use the search function to accomplish the task(that I can find).
@Mike,
I agree. There should be some way to see items that have not explicitly been put into a folder, even if it is only in the interim.
Hopefully Vijay can give us an update about this soon, if this isn't a week or two away.
I know, I know -- I badly misunderstood Bob's role here. My bad.
@Patrick,
Even though you deleted your previous post, I can assure you that YES, the Google Docs crew fully understands that "Items not in folders" is a particularly important function of Google Docs. The Google Docs crew is actively looking into what they can do. Whether a resolution will be in the "reasonably near future" is hard to say. This might depend on whether or not you think two or three weeks is "reasonably near".
That's great that ya'll are so chatty amongst yourselves. What's less great is that none of this discussion is taking place in a way that includes us, the user. and if it had the need to back pedal might have been eliminated.
And...vis a vis Henry and his Model A
He didn't do away with the horse to get to the car...
Sharon
@slkpcme,
I don't know, Sharon. I'd say this discussion now includes you. ;)
That would be the discussion about how annoying this is, not the one about the form, extent shape or any other other aspect of the solution.
But given the absolute silence except for one short post that amounted to a pat on the head after weeks of silence I can only call this exchange progress.
Google really needs to learn a few things about customer service...IMHO
Sharon
@slkpcme,
Agreed, Sharon. Google did such a great job apologizing for and explaining the details regarding the Gmail outage today. They need to apply this same level of customer service to their other products in their various states of flux.
I think what it boils down to is this... The Google Docs outsiders use is not the same Google Docs that Google employees use. Sure, they use Google Docs, so they're "eating their own dog food"... however, they're eating the freshest dog food while serving everyone on the outside last year's stale dog food.
When Gmail went down for outsiders, it also went down for Google employees. They stood up and took notice. However, all of the problems outsiders have with Google Docs are NOT problems with the version of Google Docs that Google employees use on a day-to-day basis. So, when outsiders complain about certain shortcomings of Google Docs, Google employees probably think "Ah, yes... they'll be happy to know we fixed that issue months ago... as soon as we work out all of the bugs and release this version to the masses, they'll be super happy". Of course, by the time outsiders get that "happy version", Google employees are already using an even happier version internally.
To do better by its users, Google really needs to shorten the span of time between the version of the "dog food" they're eating internally... and the version of "dog food" that they serve to everyone on the outside. It should never be more than, say, three months. If there are problems that need to be sorted out, they should shut off any useful features pertaining to that problem internally... this will light the fire under them.
^^
Interesting :)
It's been almost two months since this new interface announcment and still no sight of the new interface! Anyone know when it might be coming?
@skyhard,
By the end of September.
Hi Bob,
How do you know this? Are you on the dev team? Do you also know if the critical features (that many have commented on above) that were hastily and inexplicably removed, will return?
Is anybody on the devteam still reading these comments? Do they think that just because the comments have slowed down to less than one per day, users have stopped caring about core functionality issues like the lack of the 'not in folders' option?
The only people who have stopped caring are those who have found other, non-google solutions. WAKE UP GOOGLE! Throw us a bone, give it to us as a search function or a buried option somewhere, anything, ANYTHING but a weak suggestion to scan visually. This is exactly equivalent to removing the entire inbox function from gmail -- and, like others have already commented, this is the kind of thing that should make companies afraid, very afraid, of using google for software solutions.
the handling of this issue by Google has been a total clusterf**k. What a great way to destroy trust of legions of early adopters. Ouch.
Everyone grab your pitchforks and torches. We have a hanging to attend to.
Has there been a response to the "Items Not In Folders" view complaints?
I had that view bookmarked I used it so often. Can we get this feature back?
We are reading all of your comments and are working hard to launch the new UI and the features we mentioned in the original post. As many of you have already figured out, we have indeed been making massive changes on the backend, which slowed us down a bit.
We apologize for the delay, but rest assured "Items not in folders" will be back. We are listening to you guys and and we're not happy with the delay either. But, based on what we've been reading, we think you'll love the upcoming features.
- Vijay Bangaru, Product Manager
Thanks Vijay,
I, for one, appreciate the comment.
It's difficult to imagine that there wasn't a better way to bridge this gap, but I suppose that ship has sailed. You all probably have hindsight on the issue as well.
Your comment here is helpful, and thank you for it. I will continue to anticipate the improvements.
cant wait for the new UI and other new features!
Thanks Vijay. It's good to know that there are real people out there listening to us, and not just a faceless corporation. However, it strikes me that had Google's "customers" been informed about the details of the coming changes earlier, there would perhaps not have been so many complaints. As it is, we still don't really know what these 'upcoming features' will be. I find it much easier to get excited about something if I know what it is I'm looking forward to!
Perhaps whenever a "pardon our dust" type announcement is made... there can be a promise of follow-up every two weeks... good, bad, or indifferent. Even if every two weeks we hear "Still working on it everyone." or "There have been delays" or "We're back on track and hope to have something to show this month"... it would be a lot better than a month or more of complete silence.
I have to say, I gave up on Google about a month ago and started using Zoho Docs. I really like it so far. Proper folders, tabbed documents. Lovely.
Anything new on the new interface?
seems like this interface is not coming anytime soon. and with it goes the folder sharing option. we might as well use some other service.
Wow.... still we wait for the basic functions that were removed without any sort of notification to be reinstated or explained. Bad form Google, bad bad form.
please google, just implement folder sharing!!!
https://docs.google.com/#not-in-folders
Seems to work again.
But where is it on the left menu? and where is cowriter info? Still not enough.
That view only sort of works. I seem to get "mostly" items not in folders; as well as a bunch of items in folders. And not in any particular order?
I think google is playing with us. its time to move on...
Agreed. Time to move on.
Vijay, if you're reading this, can you give us an update? How much longer are we going to have to wait? Give us a reason to stick around - what are these new features that are going to be so exciting?
Please talk to us. We are your customers. I have been an avid fan of Google's products for a number of years and evangelised to others about the fantastic features of Google Docs, but I'm now beginning to feel a bit embarrassed at having recommended it to so many people.
When a company stops caring about its customers, the customers stop caring about the company, and at the moment Google doesn't seem to care enough to even let us know what changes are expected or when they will be implemented.
A weekly post of the Google Docs Blog giving us all an update on progress would take almost no time at all, yet might set minds at rest.
A "few weeks" has already turned into a few months. How much longer?
@james
sorry to dissapoint you, but it seems like the google guys gave up on this. I thnik its best if you just forget about this promise, these features are probably not coming. Or maybe they are, but certainly not in the near future. Check back in a few months, a year perhaps.
Vijay said:
Over the next few weeks you'll see a number of small changes, culminating in a brand new shiny interface...
...we have indeed been making massive changes on the backend, which slowed us down a bit.
I understand how these things can get away from you. You think you can do something in a few weeks, and a few months later you wish you had done things differently.
This is why you can't develop on the live product, and why you have to finish development in a sandbox before you phase the new thing in(EVEN WHEN YOU THINK IT'S SIMPLE). I gotta say, I can only imagine the pressure Vijay must be feeling right now.
@mike
I don't think he does. They made a promise wich they didn't fulfill, but they can do that, because they are google, not a minor unimportant company. The only thing that bothers me and made me stop using docs in my firm is the fact that they took away features that were present before, like items not in folders and a few more. I agree with you, they sould at least give us a timeline for this, but they almost certainly won't and these features that should have been release weeks ago probably won't ever be released, or at leasn not for a long, long time. Its sad but its true. I just hope they at least give us back the items not in folders option.
"They made a promise..."
That's very interesting. It seems the difference, today, between:
"You will see this..."
...and...
"You will see this, I promise..."
Is now NIL. Interesting that language has morphed so much these days that now "promises" no longer need language to differentiate them from any other statement.
Either that, or skyhard is putting words in Google's collective mouth. I'll bet skyhard runs Windows.
@Bob
I am not sure I quite understood what you said in the previous post, but just to clarify, I thnik docs is a great product, its just that this issues with folder sharing and items not in folders thing is very odd. I mean, I don't thnik its a good idea to just remove features. I am having troubles handling some tasks, I thnik many other people are too.
P.S. I run Ubuntu:D
@skyhard,
It's just a growing pain. Previously, there was "All folders". In preparation for the fact that other people's folders could be shared with you, this was renamed "My folders". Eventually, "Shared folders" or "Folders shared with you" will appear. This is a part of the new GUI.
In the meantime, "Items not in folders" was now ambiguous. Does this means items not in MY folders? Items not in folders shared with me? Items not in any folders whatsoever, whether my folders or folders shared with me?
This complicated things, so to mitigate this complication and to prepare for the new GUI and for functionality such as shared folders, this was removed. The people revolted. Google heard. So, now, "Items not in folders" has returned... not in the current GUI, but in the new GUI. In the meantime, you can use the #not-in-folders command to see items that are not in folders. During this transition in the background, things got a bit wonky, so some items will appear to not be in folders even though they are. This is easily fixable and should only need to be done once.
All of this complication led to more problems and more work to be done, which is what has delayed the release of the new GUI. Perhaps the better solution is that Google should have been completely quiet about this upcoming change... but people complain when Google is quiet and they say Google needs to be more transparent. Yet, when Google is transparent... announce changes ahead of time... etc... people revolt when these changes haven't yet come to fruition.
So, Google is in a lose-lose situation. Be silent and cause users to revolt or speak up and cause users to revolt.
Bob, you seem to be somewhat in the know. Can you discuss some of the changes and features of the new GUI?
@Philip,
I'm not in a position to say. Some of the obvious and not-so-secret features would, of course, would be the inclusion of photo albums (from Picasa Web Albums) into Google Docs. Some other not-so-secret but not-so-obvious features will be integration between YouTube and Google Docs.
The UI changes, while shiny and new, will not really seem worth the long wait. The reality is, though, the UI changes are necessary for what's to come next, hopefully by the end of this year. So, cross your fingers that you'll be saying hello to a famous monotreme in 2009.
Thanks Bob,
What you say makes a lot of sense. My point was that transparency could be maintained, without causing this situation. All these "complications" should have been worked out in a sandbox, not on the live product.
If I want to tinker with a new experimental transmission, I'd install it on a spare car, not the one I need to commute to work in every day, and certainly not while driving down the freeway.
@Bob
These are the things that we "customers" need to know. If Google is trying to be transparent, they should go the whole way, not give us the vague 'translucent' message that things will be coming, without saying what!
If people know that the changes being made are worth sticking around for, they would be more willing to put up with the teething troubles in the meantime.
I don't know how you know what you do, Bob, or what you affiliation with Google is, but Google should be saying this direct to us through a blog post, rather than as a side comment on an old post.
However, I thank you for filling us in on some of the proposed changes and the suggestion of something even better by the end of the year is promising (although not, of course, in the "I promise..." sense!).
@Bob
You seem to know alot about this issue. Could you at least tell us when can we expect the new UI changes. I mean, we have been waiting for folder sharing for years now. I know you probably can't say anything more, but at least tell us more about when we could expect this. It would mean so much to us docs users!
To be perfectly honest with you, I expected this much sooner. The reality is, the larger scale something is, the more forces that are outside of my control.
Even at this crucial point, "soon" can turn into "later" in the blink of an eye. All it takes is for a technical issue to come up or a shift in resources, and what was true yesterday is not even close today.
Google.. you made MORE changes - didn't add back not in folder and didn't show who docs are shared with - still has that stupid/useless 'with qty of colaborators'
Are you not listening?
Do you not give a crap?
DarkNightJess,
I believe you are mistaken. There have been no new features with the Google Docs List.
Perhaps you are thinking of the features added to Google Docs the word processor (Writely)?
These are different projects.
This Google Docs picker is sometimes fun to look at, but not very functional by itself.
http://bit.ly/WWmuv
Thanks for your patience and feedback. We've finally rolled out the changes we promised. More information available here.
Vijay Bangaru, Product Manager
Bob, I don't know what you are looking at, but my Google docs (docs, spreadsheets, etc) changed this morning. It now has folder sharing and folder drop down on the left side. Still does not have who folders are shared with on the docs though. So, I believe you are mistaken, Bob.
Decided against giving us back who docs are shared with as visible huh?
This is it!
REQUEST: It would be so very, very nice to be able to arrange all my items (including gmails and Google bookmarks bookmarks) in my document folders. That way I could assemble all the items for a given case/project/subject. - might b combined with a filter on wich item types to show :-) :-) :-)
For the recent changes: I'm very happy about all of them - going in the rigth direction
Any word on adding collaborator NAMES back instead of just useless quantity?
I am thrilled to have "Items Not In Folders" back! THANKS A MILLION!!
This seems really minor, but as I use Google Docs mostly for school work and I take a lot of language classes, I want to be able to select multiple languages from the tools menu in the document writer. I hate seeing all those error lines when I'm simply writing notes in a different language and so on.
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